Future Of Performance Marketing: Data, AI & Personalization

[00:00:00] Tessa Burg: Hello and welcome to another episode of Leader Generation brought to you by Mod Op. I’m your host Tessa Burg and today I’m joined by Jeremy Haft. He is the Chief Revenue Officer at Digital Remedy and we’re very excited to talk about the future of performance marketing. The landscape is rapidly changing and how we navigate personalization, privacy, and the precision of how our messages and our experiences reach customers is evolving at a rapid pace.

[00:00:29] Tessa Burg: But Jeremy has over 20 years of experience in managing and scaling revenue and the competitive ad tech landscape. So he is the perfect guest for today’s conversation. Jeremy, thank you so much for joining us.

[00:00:41] Jeremy Haft: Thank you so much, Tessa. I appreciate the opportunity to speak with you all.

[00:00:46] Tessa Burg: So first, before we dive in to what’s happening with data and cookies and measurement, first tell us a little bit about yourself and your role at Digital Remedy.

[00:00:58] Jeremy Haft: Yeah, of course. So, as you mentioned, 20 years, which is wild, of experience in the digital media ad tech ecosystem. I’ve spent the past, I don’t know, probably 12, 14 years now helping scale, build, rebuild, realign revenue organizations for revenue growth, high yield growth, are forever changing. Ecosystem and the the digital advertising landscape that we live in today.

[00:01:28] Jeremy Haft: I joined Digital Remedy two and a half years ago, um, to help scale what really has been a company that started the infancy of the performance-based media space 25+ years ago. And really take the organization to the next level of how we take these disparate media channels, start bringing them together to truly understand effectiveness, um, being a performance mindset organization always, but also being able to tie it back to all these new media channels that were never looked at from a performance lens.

[00:02:00] Tessa Burg: Yeah, I think it’s interesting because a lot of our clients are responsible for revenue and revenue growth, and they also use performance marketing as a key. Strategy for reaching their customers with their own service and products, so you’re going to bring a very unique lens to this conversation. We start thinking about, you know, how are we evolving as marketers in this new landscape that we’re seeing first-party, uh, cookies and first-party data become extremely important and third-party cookies get deprecated and the rise of AI and what it can do from personalization and performance when you’re working with clients. How are you seeing these changes impact the way that they’re approaching campaigns?

[00:02:50] Tessa Burg: Like, do they need to change how they prepare or how they strategize or how they think about communication with customers in order to make the most of Digital Remedy’s tech or other performance tech on the market?

[00:03:04] Jeremy Haft: Yeah, I think, you know, before we get into the specifics of brands and advertisers approach to performance media, you know, one of the things that I think has been a massive change in our industry over the past few years is a lot of the dare I say fluffy ad dollars. Have really gone away. And you know, what we’ve kind of seen is a lot of the marketers are now becoming finance gurus and everything is really tying into effectiveness outcomes and performance.

[00:03:38] Jeremy Haft: Right? So the dollars of yesterday are. the same dollars, but treated vastly different with how marketers are really planning, analyzing and executing media because they’re really looking at what is driving the needle on the growth of their business. Um, so I think, you know, one of the things that Digital Remedy is doing very well is how do we take these disparate media channels or dare I say legacy upper funnel channels and tie them into performance media? Um, campaigns. And then, you know, as you asked about You know, where are we doing? What are we doing to find the consumers? What are we doing to understand where their eyeballs are and then how they’re doing to actually convert. And I think that’s something that really is where our focus is. It’s something that really drew me to this organization is something where I see any conversation with a marketer now, whether it’s a B2B marketer or B2C marketer. Is somebody that is really looking at how you can help drive our business forward?

[00:04:40] Tessa Burg: Yeah. What are some examples of those legacy media channels, especially at top-of-funnel?

[00:04:46] Jeremy Haft: Yeah, so, you know, it’s funny you talk about the funnel and you know Is it the traditional funnel approach because every single person’s consumer journey is completely different, right? Um and everything dare I say is treated in a performance capacity because we’re always optimizing to what that ideal Um, path to purchase is, and for you, it might start from search, and then you might see a CTV ad, and then you might go and do something, right?

[00:05:15] Jeremy Haft: Where does the credit go? And then take that, flip that, and maybe I saw a CTV ad, and then you, and then I searched, and then I converted. Who gets the credit, right? Um, So when you talk about those upper-funnel, uh, media activations, you know, you’ve got digital out of home, right? There’s full attribution now, really tied to exposure to somebody actually doing something. Audio, uh, CTV and OTT, all these media channels that again were. built for awareness or likeliness, or I’m sorry, consideration is now taking into account of how much product or service did I sell based off of exposure to those media channels?

[00:05:58] Tessa Burg: I remember back in the day when I worked in consumer marketing, it was so hard when lower funnel channels were doing well. It was very hard to keep investments in the higher funnel channels because There wasn’t such a direct line of visibility. And the, what I always got to ask is like, how much more can we spend in paid search?

[00:06:22] Tessa Burg: Like we love paid search. It’s like, well, the volume for who comes and converts on a product is, you know, is in somewhat based on their awareness of said product and having seen the product, the solution, the positioning at a moment when they need it to, so what are some ways that you are making sure those awareness channels?

[00:06:43] Tessa Burg: Have some targeting or precision messaging worked in so that there is that nice tie down to influencing conversion.

[00:06:53] Jeremy Haft: Yeah, question. I mean, listen, I think a couple of it has to do with data-driven marketing strategies, right? There’s an element of personalization. There is an element of how is AI being used to understand who my audience is? And then building personalized creative messaging or dynamic creative as well.

[00:07:13] Jeremy Haft: DCO is something that is definitely being deployed and it’s being deployed across different media channels, which, you know, when you talk about historically. You know, it wasn’t used in a way where you can real-time change creative on the fly based off of key metrics or key of who that audience is who that household is what the data and privacy compliant data is of What those households are so you can make sure that you’re reaching and dare I say we’ve all been saying it for so long is Right message at the right time to the right person on the right device, right? But now you can make so many more decisions in that micro millisecond than you previously would be able to, um, one of the things kind of backtracking back to the question on, you know, talking about, um, using these upper funnel media channels to actually drive conversion and then tying that into what you just said about. How much more money can we pay, you know, buy into search, right? People were spending in search because it was attractive from economy’s perspective, but it was also attributable, right? That’s the word he’s right. All right, why not? Another buzzword for our industry. Um, but to be a bit to be able to actually correlate performance, right?

[00:08:30] Jeremy Haft: We know somebody can action. They went to our site where they took some sort of acquisition action. Now we can tie these media channels together and actually show that correlation of how those media, uh, CTV, for example, is impacting an increase in performance or in search, right? Previously wasn’t able to be done. Now you can. That’s where people are starting to say, okay, I’m well, I’m willing to take some money out of other these other media channels, whether you search, put it in here, because I know if I put X amount of dollars in there, I know it’s going to increase my search performance if I didn’t versus not putting dollars in there. Um, so that’s, those are some of the solutions that we’re thinking about and seeing today that advertised marketers are starting to do because they see at the day, I can only pump so much into search, but I know again, that every single data, every single report, every single study says more and more eyeballs are going to that big screen.

[00:09:22] Jeremy Haft: Right up on your on your wall. Um, so that’s one area where we’re seeing, you know, a lot of success, and there’s been multiple reports from very large OEMs and streaming services about the thousands upon thousands of advertisers that never actually seen. Spent in CTV before, because they’re always just performance-driven marketers that are now taking their dollars once in 9, 000 brand new advertisers.

[00:09:51] Jeremy Haft: We also are 20, 000 new advertisers. I heard somebody say something 9 million new advertisers are going to start spending in these mediums because they know that there, you can actually tie back real performance metrics to these channels that you historically weren’t able to.

[00:10:09] Tessa Burg: Yeah. I agree. The results and the data and seeing that others are doing it builds confidence with marketers to at least test and try.

[00:10:16] Jeremy Haft: also like the FOMO effect, right?

[00:10:18] Tessa Burg: Yes, exactly. Well, especially if like your CFO or CEO hears that your competitors are doing it and they’re like, is this something we can do? Why aren’t we there? Or my favorite is when they saw an ad from a competitor and they email you.

[00:10:33] Tessa Burg: And, you know, you’d been pitching that for forever. And they’re like, I thought we were doing CTV and outdoor. Um, it’s like, no, I only said that.

[00:10:41] Jeremy Haft: They’re like, uh, check the email from two years ago, date it.

[00:10:47] Tessa Burg: Uh, but one of the things, and so that’s a big shift for marketers to be open to new channels, to have to internally sell. Hey, look, what’s happening in the market. Let’s give it a try. It’s all going to be attributable or whatever the word is we just made up. It will be measurable. We’ll be able to see ROI and impact.

[00:11:06] Tessa Burg: But another one you mentioned, uh, dynamic creative. And I think a lot of organizations are used to seeing creative concepts, seeing designs and improving. What are some of the guardrails? that you’re able to set up so they know that even if it is dynamic or personalized on the fly, it still falls within their brand guidelines.

[00:11:27] Tessa Burg: Um, and any of the requirements they have for brand safety.

[00:11:31] Jeremy Haft: Yeah, uh, good question. I think, you know, there’s, there’s a couple of things that can be set up, right? You know, you talk about the brand brief, if you will, you talk about the creative elements, you can put guardrails around what the rules, rules of the road are of what that DCO Solution does, right? You know, you talk about how generative AI Is used in, um, creative development, development or creative insights. You talk about marrying third-party data, first-party data, household center, demographic data, right? With, uh, with AI-driven strategies that alone can then inform the Which creative asset is delivered to that household based off of the key attributes that are set forth within the plan.

[00:12:17] Jeremy Haft: Right now, that’s sort of starting to get automated. Now, again, is it perfect right now? No. Our brand’s testing right now. Yes. Is it going to get better in the future? A thousand percent.

[00:12:27] Tessa Burg: Mm hmm. Yeah, I think that’s one certainty is that these technologies will continue to improve. And so starting to be open to be spending your time more on who the audience is, needs and wants and have, and how different creative messaging can respond to that, uh, is a good shift. And breaking down 10 people needing to approve a banner ad would also be an awesome show.

[00:12:53] Jeremy Haft: Yeah. I mean, I remember my first, uh, one of my first, first jobs, I was an account coordinator at an agency and taking. A piece of paper that had a lot of lines for approvals and running up and down elevators and trying to chase people down. For approvals. And if the copywriters saw one period in the wrong place, guess what? It had to go back to the creative, be reprinted accurately, and then ran around. Right? Being able to now use, obviously, technology to be able to automate all of that. Right? And then also deliver the right ad. It’s going to save organizations so much more time. You know, we always talk about, how do you, how do we get more efficient?

[00:13:34] Jeremy Haft: Right? And this drives, obviously, operational efficiency. For brands, but also it’s executional efficiency as well when it’s time to go to market.

[00:13:42] Tessa Burg: Yeah, I could not agree more. And as we become more efficient, and as marketers learn to let go of some of those elements we were talking about before, There are things we could control. And so that’s why people were holding on to, uh, some legacy way of doing things. But if we do let go, if we let go of some of that control, where should marketers be putting their time and more strategic thinking?

[00:14:08] Jeremy Haft: Yeah, uh, great question I think you know, the biggest challenge for all of us is the fear of unknown and you know what the next new solution brings and are we going to dabble in it or are we not and you know, one of the things that I found myself start playing in because at the end the day We all have great ideas, but sometimes you just get stuck and being able to start taking those ideas and inputting them into an AI bot or ChatGPT, or one of, you know, one of the many AI-driven solutions there, you know, what I find it really gets you, dare I say 80 percent of the way, it takes a lot of that. lag out of the workload, and then you can then take that and fine-tune the rest so it really becomes more impactful when you’re whether you’re talking about creative message messaging or strategy or an omni-channel media mix, or how am I going to find my ideal customer? What is my ideal customer profile?

[00:15:09] Jeremy Haft: Depending on where you are in your life stage of your brand or your focus, it really starts helping you really take away that time suck. So that you can start getting to market faster, right? We go back, performance, performance, performance, and everything’s about how do we, you know, A, you know, finance one on one, how do you increase shareholder’s wealth, right?

[00:15:30] Jeremy Haft: That’s, that’s one element of it. And by doing so is how do you get to market and drive greater products and services and find new audiences and new customers faster. And that’s really what these AI-driven models and solutions are starting to help, um, organizations of all size do.

[00:15:46] Tessa Burg: Yeah. I love that answer. And something that you said before the call that I think is really important to highlight It allows you to get to know individual clients and companies or individual customers deeper to produce more personalized content for them. And it’s really different than where performance marketers used to spend a lot of time.

[00:16:12] Tessa Burg: It really was on the creative. It really wasn’t messaging. And yes, we have personas and yes, we had segments. But now we can, by letting go of cross-channel optimization, by having performance be an optimization, more automated, even the creative be more automated. We’re able to get deeper with specific customers and clients.

[00:16:36] Jeremy Haft: Yes. And I think, you know, one of the things that we, we offer our customer set and it’s something that, you know, you always talk about, well, you also want to drink your own Kool-Aid, let’s make sure it’s red 40 free, um, is where, you know, it’s not only it’s what we’re offering from an account-based marketing and ABM perspective to our customers, but we’re actually doing it for ourselves as well, right?

[00:17:00] Jeremy Haft: You know, you start, you know, you spend time really drilling down into what your, Ideal customer profile profiles. Like, cause depending on who you talk to, everybody’s like, well, I don’t want to talk to everybody, right? I want everybody to buy my product and services, but guess what? Not everybody wants your stuff and that’s okay.

[00:17:17] Jeremy Haft: But if you can really drill down and understand who your ICP is and then build an ABM strategy. I feel like it’s acronym bingo right now, but, um, what we’re able to do is really build out creative solutions and really 360 approach those specific ideal customer, customer profiles, and then use the technologies to really figure out what that right path is and what that journey is to really engage and spend time and nurture those potential leads into then becoming potential customers of our organization or respectively our customers when we engage in ABM strategies for them.

[00:17:58] Tessa Burg: And I feel like the more you nurture high-quality conversations, then the higher value, the sales conversation will be. And I know a lot of our clients want to be a great partner to their sales teams, but there, there are those legacy metrics that people are really used to. Um, being held accountable to like, how many people did you reach with this?

[00:18:21] Tessa Burg: What were the overall impressions? And even from sales teams, how many, how many, how many, how can marketers combat that? Like, what are the new metrics and KPIs that are really most important when we think about this opportunity to go deeper and nurture high-quality conversations to tee up a great opportunity for sales?

[00:18:41] Jeremy Haft: Yeah. Well, when you put my revenue hat on, it’s not about the leads. It’s about the conversions. But, but, you know, you obviously have to get, you got to get to the leads first. And, you know, there, there are, you know, there, there are attention metrics that are being used. There’s engagement metrics, dare I say time spent metrics as well, to understand these prospects are engaging with, Okay. Your brand or a brand, the brand in itself. And what do they care most about? And the beauty about the digital ecosystem is you can measure it all right. So what areas of the messaging is that qualified lead spending time with? How do we then take that and personalize? More messaging in real time to be able to then know.

[00:19:35] Jeremy Haft: Okay, you know, we have them on the line. How do we start giving them more of that material, that content, that messaging, that personalization so that they either proactively or each other. Okay, I’m in. I want to learn more or know it’s the right time to send one of our sellers off to actually try, engage and spend time and really hit them from a one-to-one perspective.

[00:20:03] Tessa Burg: Yeah, and I think a lot of marketers love to get that one-to-one perspective, but there’s this fear that with third-party cookies being deprecated, it’s going to be harder and harder to reach back out or stay top of mind. How are you solving and helping clients stay top of mind and reach the right customer with the deprecation of third-party cookies?

[00:20:26] Jeremy Haft: The forever deprecation of, uh, third-party cookies. Um Yeah, so I think one of the things and, you know, the beauty about again, going back to the digital ecosystem is the element of being able to drive a deterministic deterministic approach to media activation. Obviously, if that’s leveraging a client’s. first-party data or not, but then also leveraging the deterministic device ID graphs and be able to understand, you know, which households, which devices are connected to whom and what’s the, the behaviors, the interest, what they’re engaging with, the purchase cycles, where the, where those devices are going as well.

[00:21:08] Jeremy Haft: That really helps you really drive up a more deterministic approach of understanding an audience, right. In a macro manner. That allows you to go after then those specific strategic precision audiences to again provide them with personalization that historically they were just getting the general content.

[00:21:33] Tessa Burg: Yeah, I agree. And one of the areas that we’re balancing to when we talk about reaching people at the right time is paid and organic strategies. And even, you know, almost everywhere I work, they’ve been siloed. We’ve had, you know, organic social media experts, organic SEO experts, and then paid sat somewhere else because there was so much expertise required for media planning and spending all that time on picking the right channel as opposed to now, you know, Digital Remedy gives you the tech to optimize across all the channels.

[00:22:10] Tessa Burg: So how is that impacting those silent silos between paid and organic?

[00:22:15] Jeremy Haft: Yeah. Um, it’s interesting because, you know, you’re taking me back to a time when I was focused on helping, uh, build a sales org where paid owned and earned was very, very important, uh, piece of business and is in the social video space and world in which virality, you know, meant so much. How do you get, know, how do you use paid advertising to basically put gasoline on a fire and it go, right? Um, how, how it all works together is, you know, what I see, you know, for me, obviously. Helps us drive the success of any organization that I work for. But it’s, how does it work in tandem? How do we more or less use that organic virality that you’re talking about to also help educate, because that typically happens faster than paid.

[00:23:12] Jeremy Haft: So how are we understanding and how are we using that almost as like a. focus group of audience behaviors, audience types, you know, you’re, you’re getting web data, you’re getting analytic data, you’re getting insights and audience data on whomever is engaging with that organic, um, that those organic posts or those organic searches or what have you, and how you’re using that to then use that to inform your paid media strategy to then, in theory, you can, you know, again, advance ad technology, suppress audiences and or people Or areas or regions that have already been exposed to your messaging so that you’re then not duplicating because you know, those people already saw it and or engaging or on the flip side, you know, they engage, you give them a different offer so that they can convert if they haven’t converted.

[00:24:01] Jeremy Haft: Right? So there’s a gazillion different strategies that can take where paid and organic can really live in a, in a symbiotic manner.

[00:24:11] Tessa Burg: Are you able to see like where organic is playing a role in the customer journey, similar to how you’re seeing the higher funnel channels? Have influence on performance and

[00:24:25] Jeremy Haft: and I, yes, an asterisk, right? I think everything, everything has on, um, it all depends on that. Let’s call it partner relationship, right? Because you can only do so much if you’re not getting information back. Um, it really needs to be that collaborative working environment across, um, partner. I don’t like saying vendor partner and their customer. Um, in order to be able to drive whatever that overarching outcome is. And if you’re again, if you’re working in an, uh, in an outcome-based model, people are more apt to sharing whether that sales data, whether that’s organic view data, um, whether it’s additional paid media data so that again, everybody’s goal is to Increase performance in some capacity.

[00:25:15] Jeremy Haft: And again, performance is a large word. That means so many different things to so many people, as it’s about performance of driving a more effective sales outcome, if you will, more data is going to come back because that marketer to look good to their boss. Right? So they’re willing to share more information.

[00:25:36] Jeremy Haft: If you’re able to showcase that you took what their benchmarks are and then gave them a strategy to succeed, ultimately did so.

[00:25:46] Tessa Burg: So in that vein of like visibility and transparency are, are you seeing any challenges with at, uh, generative optimization becomes a much bigger part of both paid and organic strategies. Is that shifting the volumes that you’re seeing in any of the paid channels to more organic? Like if I’m using ChatGPT to ask questions or to get that educational element, is that taking away from search?

[00:26:17] Tessa Burg: Or do you see sort of this introduction of generative search and GEO as a new opportunity for marketers to really, I guess, lean into different ways of educating and reaching their audience?

[00:26:31] Jeremy Haft: Yeah. And the way that we’re starting to play with generative AI solutions is it’s more on the, it’s element of it is on the optimization side of it as well. How do we leverage these signals to help the systems learn faster so that our people can continue to operate the business quicker that are going to drive an outcome. So part of it is also compliancy, right? Um, we have a lot of our customers that we want to start, you know, testing and also has to be the right customer. Um, you know, whether it be from, know, a financial slash insurance vertical versus an auto vertical versus QSR There’s different legalities that we need to make sure that we adhere to to ensure that we are compliant with What they are looking at and deeming, especially, you know, when you’re working with a lot of brands direct the info sec team right comes into play and that’s where they start asking a lot of questions on generative AI and what’s the data that we’re capturing using and or giving back and as long as it’s compliant with what they’re looking, what they deem OK, then we’re able to execute on it. Also, we’re not going to throw, you know, new buzzer generative AI out there to try and You know, bringing a new customer, as long as we’re, if we’re not using it be able to actually drive that performance outcome for our customers.

[00:27:59] Tessa Burg: So what I like about that is people don’t have to get too worried or hung up on the impact generative AI or even search generative AI and search is having as long as the platform is always monitoring and tracking and responding to change in behavior. So if you have an always on measurement tool that’s completely centered on the needs, wants and patterns of your customers, then really us as marketers.

[00:28:27] Tessa Burg: Need to continue to elevate and spend more time on how do we get deeper with that customer when and at the time that they’re looking for a solution like ours. Um, and because I, I myself sometimes worry about that. I’m like, Ooh, you know, how would you know when you’re going to be overspending and paid?

[00:28:45] Tessa Burg: How would you know you should be in this channel versus that? Because there’s a new announcement every day on new tech, new ways to find information, new ways to engage. And it can be really overwhelming. And I like this stuff.

[00:29:01] Jeremy Haft: yeah, of course. And I, you know, and it’s funny, you know, when we, we talk about this within our organization too, it’s, you know, what are we doing? What are we doing? Right. Where should we change? What are other companies doing that? Really makes sense to a more impactful with our customers.

[00:29:20] Jeremy Haft: How do we make, again, our, our goal when we start out is how do we help make our customers smarter? How do we help them make more informed decisions using insights and data? To drive more effective outcomes. How do we and why do we recommend you should be spending X percent in this media channel? And why in that media channel?

[00:29:42] Jeremy Haft: Well, it’s because of the data, right? And it’s based off of using those optimization techniques and these new technologies that can also recommend, right? Because we can take past performance in the past three years our customers, their media mix, put it in a, an AI solution, and it’s going to come and tell us, well, you should start off the mix, right?

[00:30:07] Jeremy Haft: It’s never set it and forget it. I don’t remember that whole infomercial from back. We always joke about if you set it and you forget it, you’re going to regret it. So it’s how do you set it and then how do you use that data and those recommendations and, you know, the initial set from, you know, maybe chat GBT to build that media execution strategy.

[00:30:29] Jeremy Haft: And then you optimize. Based off of where you’re seeing that consumer journey drive outcome. Right? So robots aren’t taking over. They’re helping us do our job more effectively.

[00:30:44] Tessa Burg: I love it. Well, this has been a very deep conversation. Thanks so much for taking the time. Uh, if people, if listeners want to reach out to you and learn more about Digital Remedy, where can they find you?

[00:30:55] Jeremy Haft: Yeah, they can find me on LinkedIn. They can email me at, uh, Jeremy at Digital Remedy. com. And, uh, or just go to digitalremedy. Com and you can find me that way as well.

[00:31:07] Tessa Burg: That’s awesome. And before we leave, actually, because this Has been a great conversation. What are you most looking forward to like what’s coming up for either Digital Remedy or just in the performance marketing space that in 2025 you think is going to make a major impact that marketers need to be aware of.

[00:31:23] Jeremy Haft: Yeah, I think, um, oof, that’s the hardest question of them all, Tessa. No, um, what I’m looking forward to being in the performance media space, the outcome based space, um, there’s obviously a lot of talk. About the don’t want to call it the shift, but the growth of more advertisers on CTV and OTT. Um, there’s a tremendous scale there. We all know that’s where the eyeballs are. Um, how do we help our customers and educate them on why they need to spend more? They’re obviously cost more. But is it driving a better outcome for our customers? Obviously. Also, what’s interesting is, you know, the news on there.

[00:32:11] Jeremy Haft: I say safety and suitability and what is happening there and what is defined by that and how we’re ensuring that all of our brands, you know, across the entire ecosystem, not just a Digital Remedy are future-proof because at the end of the day, there’s always going to be bad actors there. They’re going to be out there. What are we doing as an entire industry to safeguard both from a consumer and an advertiser perspective from questionable content? And again, lastly, is personalization. That’s going to be a dramatic, dramatic continued building growth for our industry. So seeing again, going back to the forever big question of how do I reach the right person at the right time with the right ad and the right device? It’s now, how do I do it in a personalized capacity? And I think that is something that’s really taking flight using all these new tools, such as generative AI, DCO, et cetera.

[00:33:09] Tessa Burg: Yeah, I love that. I think this episode has been a really great roadmap. For performance marketers to manage up, manage up to your CEO on introducing new metrics, introducing new potential channels that will still be attributable to driving more conversions and sales and really refresh the space at a time when I think these changes feel very scary.

[00:33:31] Tessa Burg: This is an opportunity to reinvent the way marketers can show value to their businesses and to their sales partners.

[00:33:39] Jeremy Haft: I agree.

[00:33:41] Tessa Burg: So now we’re really going to end

[00:33:43] Jeremy Haft: All right.

[00:33:44] Tessa Burg: on Jeremy. And if you want to hear more episodes of Leader Generation, you can find them at modop. Com. That’s M O D O P. com. They are under the navigation called The Vanguardian, which is where we have our blog and other thought leadership.

[00:33:59] Tessa Burg: And you can find Jeremy Haft on LinkedIn. Until next time, we will talk to you again soon.

[00:34:05] Jeremy Haft: Thank you.