What Role Does Brand Play In B2B Marketing?

Tessa: Hello and welcome to another episode of “Lead Generation,” brought to you by Tenlo Radio. Today’s guest, we’re so excited to have him, is our CEO of Tenlo, Kip Botirius. And we’re gonna be discussing what role brand plays in B2B marketing. Hello, Kip. Thanks for being our guest.

Kip: Hi.

Tessa: He’s usually so busy. He doesn’t get to do this fun stuff that myself and Cheryl, our head of content and copy, get to work on all the time. So I’m glad that you’re able to make some time today to be a guest on the show.

Kip: Yeah, I’m excited to be here. I’m excited to be a part of it.

Tessa: So we’re gonna be talking about the role brand plays in B2B marketing. Tell us a little bit about yourself and your background, and really why is this topic so important to you?

Kip: So, as you mentioned, I’m the CEO of Tenlo. I, just a little bit of background on me, I’ve always been an agency guy. I love the agency world. I love the pace. I love marketing. You know, I love being in a business that’s so ever evolving. The marketing world changes on seemingly a daily basis. But I am a firm believer in kind of integrated marketing approaches, you know, one of the reasons why I think brand is so important is it is the linchpin between everything.

Kip: So one of the reasons why we started Tenlo even was because there seemed to be a silo of agencies. You know, whether they were platform specific or technology specific, like a dev shop or an email shop. But really just always believe that, you know, in order to get real sales results, you’ve gotta have an integrated approach. And that brand approach is what keeps it all together. So that’s, you know, that’s kind of why I believe brand is so important in this process.

Tessa: Yeah, and I will say just from working with you, it has been really interesting to learn that side, especially coming from more of the development side and seeing how important it is that people are able to connect with something that’s bigger than just the product or just the person or just the tactic. So… Go ahead.

Kip: No, was just gonna say, and adding to that, I mean, you know, what’s always drawn me to marketing is, and everybody who knows me knows I’m a relationship guy. Like, that’s what I enjoy about the world in general. But brands and marketing are about relationships. They’re about understanding what motivates people, they’re about understanding what motivates, you know, not just employees and clients and target audiences. And to me that, the relationship part of that is key. And relationship’s a key part of brands.

Tessa: Yes. I agree. We’ve seen that play out so many times that relationships are so important. What are some other components that you think are really critical and kind of core to what makes up brand?

Kip: So a couple things in there. And first, just to set it back, I feel like brand is the most misused word in all of marketing, maybe in all of business. The way that I look at a brand, is a brand is really a functional benefit with an emotional connection. And, you know, it’s not a logo, it’s not a tagline, it’s not anything like that. Those are all representations of the brand, but the brand really lives in the minds of three groups. It’s your internal team, it’s your customers, it’s your prospects. And that perception that lives, that brand that lives in there, you know, is really what it’s all about.

Kip: And so the reason why the relationship part of it is, I mean, it really is the most important thing. Relationships with brands are what makes us wanna buy that. It makes us wanna trust that brand. It makes us be willing to pay more for a brand. And whether that’s consumer or B2B, that same thing fundamentally comes into play because ultimately, as human beings, we don’t make rational decisions.

Kip: And, you know, for years and years Pepsi and Coke have showed that in that when you do blind taste tests, Pepsi wins every time, but Coke is still the dominant player in the marketplace. And so ultimately brands help us make decisions based on, you know, all of these complex things that are going on in our mind for, you know, as human beings. So building that relationship, you know, having a defined position in the mind of people. There’s a whole laundry list of benefits that, you know, we could chat about at some point in here, but there’s a whole laundry list of benefits that that has.

Tessa: You mentioned some of the benefits that are external, like the impact on how people, the buyer specifically, or the customers of the product, perceive the company and how they value the relationship. Are there benefits that reach inside the organization or have impact on operations or sales processes?

Kip: Yeah. I love that question. I love this part of brands. Because when, I think when people misuse brands and the brand approach, and whatever, it’s because they just focus on the nebulous, the, you know, the logo, the colors, the fonts, the, that things, but really when brands are done the right way a brand is at the core of everything you do.

Kip: So a strong brand… It affects, and more so it affects, it guides, everything in your companies. Customer service, sales, marketing, operations, you know. Sales specifically, should be an expression of your brand, right? Ultimately that brand should be integral in everything the sales process touches, including who the actual salespeople are.

Kip: And ultimately, if we look at it, when you’ve got a well-defined brand, when you’re developing products, those products should align back to to the brand.

Kip: You know, one of the things that really has always kind of fueled my passion for brands at all, just the people involved and, you know, people involved both in audiences, but internal groups.

Kip: Because ultimately, again, when that brand is really, really well done and it’s really ownable and it’s really unique, it’s gonna drive what products you’re developing. It’s gonna drive how you sell your products, how you communicate your products. Obviously it’s gonna dictate your marketing, but everything along there, it’s like you have a, you know, a central point to tie everything back to to say, “Are we doing this?” And if we are, you know, then it aligns with who we are as an organization.

Kip: And I… And again, internally for employees what I think it gives employees is it gives you a vision to work towards, right? And it also gives you an emotional connection. Strong brands, you know, that align with your value make people wanna stay at that company. They make people wanna work harder. They, they… And we have a lot of this here, ’cause we have amazing people at Tenlo and I see the passion that they, everyday, have for doing great work, for doing what’s best for clients, for living the brand. Even if they’re not consciously thinking, “I’m living the brand today.” They really truly are. Yeah.

Tessa: I love that answer. And I think that even when we work with clients with strong brands, they bring sort of the corporate values and what their company stands for and how they go to market to the projects we do. And it makes that collaboration so much more rich, so much more valuable. So we do a lot with our clients in the digital space. Tell us a little bit about how brand impacts the different types of executions that we do digitally.

Kip: Yeah. So again, the whole digital experience, and sales experience, and any other experience with companies should be based on the brand. Right? They need to be consistent. But really the digital experience has become the biggest influence on brand today. So when we, and we talk about all the time, right? Internally and in pitches and with our clients that, somewhere around 90% of people use some version of online research when they’re looking at products and services, in the B2B space. Right?

Kip: And so ultimately when you start looking at… You know, it used to be, you know, I’m gonna pick up the phone, I’m gonna call a salesperson, or I’m gonna take that sales person call and that’s gonna be my first interaction with the brand. And I’m gonna ask the questions that now we just research online.

Kip: So ultimately if three quarters of the research is done before they ever talk to somebody at your company or with your brand that digital experience is driving what your brand is. And again, human beings are inherently flawed. So that first perception they get of your brand, based on your digital experience, your website an email they got from you, a piece of content, you know, an online ad, a, you know, whatever those pieces and parts are, if that brand is not reflected in there, they’re gonna have a huge disconnect when they get to a point where they’re interacting with you.

Kip: You know, and again, one of the core tenants of brand is it’s gotta be real and it’s gotta be ownable. And I think a lot of people make the mistake of just throwing out like, “Well, this is, you know, this is who we are.” But it’s not based in reality. It’s not the truth. They haven’t gone through the process to identify what that truly means and so ultimately that digital experience is your first interaction with customers, right?

Kip: And ultimately if that brand is not ownable, it’s not unique, if it’s not doing what you want it to accomplish in terms of the positioning of that brand in your customer’s mind, it’s actually gonna have a negative effect in terms of, you know, the believability, the value of it and it honestly will, instead of being a weapon that drives revenue, it will actually be something that holds you back.

Kip: Because, again, when people will have disconnections in their brain about what a brand is, what a company is, what their value is, it just tends to have them say, like, I don’t trust that then. And, you know, one of the things when we talk about like having good alignment of digital and the brand, I mean really pretty simply things like you’re gonna have better awareness and less purchasing hurdles, right?

Kip: If ultimately you’ve got a well-defined digital experience based on an ownable brand, your people are gonna be less likely to come and say, “Well, you’re too expensive. Give me something else.” You’re gonna have better loyalty. Right? Your customers are gonna just feel like this is somebody I wanna be aligned with.

Kip: You know, and on B2B there’s definitely the functional part, right? Like I need to buy this widget for my manufacturing process, but ultimately, you know, there’s lots of suppliers out there. So it, the price sensitivity part of it is a big issue.

Kip: But two other, I think one of the two most valuable things of having a really well-defined brand and digital process is, you know, one, it’s easier to launch new products. So when you, because, A, you’ve got the functional, digital process already out there, experience already out there but two, there’s less resistance to it. And I think the most important thing overall is you’re gonna increase employee motivation, right? If they know that when people are talking about the brand and trying to interact with the brand that it’s a great experience and it aligns with their own personal values they’re just gonna be much, much happier, more motivated and all the above. So… I’ll stop there.

Tessa: That… Yeah. So we have a lot to unpack there. So there’s benefits, and it was a strong brand. And specifically for clients like ours, and a lot of people that listen to the podcast who are leading marketing teams at manufacturing or industrial companies, or at professional service companies that then sell to those types of companies. I love the point on price sensitivity on that it helps more efficient and more effective new product launches. Can you give us an example of, you know, when we’ve worked with a client, or when you have worked with a client even before your days at Tenlo, and you saw the client realize those benefits?

Kip: Yeah, I will. But first I wanna follow up on one thing you said on price sensitivity part of it. So one of the things, one of the big problems I always see with brands is that people talk about it as a nebulous thing, But in real, in the real world, especially in the B2B world, strong brands demand more money. Like it’s a proven fact across a lot of different research, a lot of different things. So when you’re looking at brand you should never be looking at it in terms of like, “I need to change our brand. I don’t like our logo.” Right? It’s more, the brand should be something that’s ownable, that’s strong that presents benefits and will, it really should be a revenue generator. And if it’s not then you know, that’s a… Call me, we’ll have a conversation about it.

Tessa: So I wanna stop on that point because I think that’s really interesting. How do I know that my brand is ownable? And especially in B2B, ’cause I think a lot of us tend to think that, you know, our product and the quality of the products is really what’s most important and what is driving sort of the value.

Kip: Yeah. So there’s a lot in there. So ultimately when we talk about what value does ownability provide in here? So how do you know it’s ownable? So one is, and there’s lots of different process for this. We have our process. But it’s a matter of, for a brand to be ownable it has to be important and motivating to target audiences and it’s gotta be something that no one else can provide and it’s gotta be something you’re good at. And if it doesn’t check those three boxes, it’s ultimately gonna be, it’s gonna be fluffy. It’s gonna be, you know…

Kip: And I see it all the time, and probably everybody sees it all the time. When you look at something and you’re like, “Well they’re kind of saying that they’re this, but that doesn’t make a lot of sense.” You know, it happens a lot of times with people say, you know, customer service or people, like that’s what makes us different. And that’s rarely the case.

Kip: So we go through a process, we identify attributes that are important to target audiences, how do those attributes align with the perception of what you think our clients do well and then ultimately how does mapping against both of those, the effect on purchasing intent.

Kip: So ultimately what you wanna get is something that is really valuable to the audience, that you’re really good at and that actually effects purchasing intent. And that’s where you’re gonna start to maximize.

Kip:When those three things come together, that’s where you maximize the financial impact of a brand. And that’s where that brand then drives everything that you do and those things that you’re doing are gonna be, you’re gonna know that they’re perceived to be more value, you’re gonna know that they’re unique to you, you’re gonna know that they provide a ton of value, you know, across just about everything you do. Whether it’s employee retention, whether it’s sales, whether it’s, you know, anything in the business world in general.

Tessa: I like that you made brand really tangible and highlighted the different ways that it can be measured. ‘Cause I think it’s important to our clients, and to us as B2B marketers, that things aren’t fluffy, that we can tie all of our investments back to return. And that’s what’s made digital marketing so strong in B2B, you know, in the last decade or more. So now let’s go back to the example question.

Kip: Okay.

Tessa: And, you know, tell us a little bit about, you know, when this has been brought to life and, you know, have clients, or when have clients seen brand deliver value either in a product launch or a campaign. Tell us a little bit more about that.

Kip: Yeah. So I’ll start with, or I’ll use an example of a client we work a lot with and a client that trusts us for a lot of what they do, and that’s Nestlé Professional. So really, and this is a, we do, you know, we’ve worked with them, we work with Nestlé in general for over 40 years. But with the Professional group we’ve worked with for a long time, we’re really integrating what they do, but it all started, it was probably six years ago, with talking to them about their brand. Because they’ve got, you know, you think of Nestlé and the layers, they’ve got a really complicated brand because there’s some, you know, benefits they get from the Nestlé name but they’re also a B2B company.

Kip: When we first went to ’em they were just a collection of random products. You know, it was… NESCAFÉ was doing their thing, was doing their thing. You know, all of the Vitality, the Vitality brand was still there, there was Vitality products. And so they weren’t leveraging all the efficiencies that you leverage by having a really strong brand strategy.

Kip: And on top of that they had things that were kind of set down from global, from corporate global, to say this is what your brand is. This is what we are globally, it’s up to you to kind of figure out how this works. So there’s a lot of moving pieces in there.

Kip: And so ultimately what we really wanted to do was take a step back, do some research, kind of based around what some of the things we were talking about. What is important, what are the attributes that are important to you? How do you associate those with Nestlé and some of the competitors? And which ones are gonna affect purchasing the most? ‘Cause at the end of the day, and I think this is to your point, that one of the big problems that a lot of marketers do to themselves is that they don’t think about brand in terms of how it affects purchasing. Because if it doesn’t affect purchasing, and this is our philosophy, right, is everything we do has to have an ROI, a metric, you know, we’re projecting out revenue.

Kip: We’re doing all these things because at the end of the day our clients love working with us because we honestly have a really great group of human beings but also because we get them results. And, you know, we could probably rattle off 10 different clients that we have that specifically because we got them great results.

Kip: So specific to Nestlé Professional, what we really started with was finding out the core needs of the operator. And so the research that we did in our process really at the end of the day what we needed to move from was a lot of what they were talking about was operational efficiency. So they call their target audiences, generally, operators. And so what they were talking about as operators, they were talking to operators about. We can help you be more operationally efficient. You know, we can help you, you know, with pricing. We can help you with, you know, products that fit within this, this operational format. And really what they heard from operators was just help us delight customers.

Kip: You’re Nestlé, you know, you have access to consumer trends, you understand our marketplace, you understand where the world is going, you know, help us in general delight our customers. Because we don’t have that information. Basically a lot of what we heard was, “I know how to run my operation, you know, in general I’m an expert at this operation because this is what I do. I don’t need you to come in and help me operationally. I need you to help me with the delighting of customers.”

Kip: So that was kind of the big a-ha that came out of that and within that, if you, the, to go back to the, you know, the purchasing influence, if you can help me delight my customers I’m gonna be less likely to come back and, you know, squabble with you about pricing. Because if you’re delivering me a solution that’s on trend, that is getting people excited, that’s driving new business in here, that’s when it becomes irreplaceable. And that’s where, when you talk about price elasticity, if you have that unique product that aligns with your brand and can help me drive results then of course I’m gonna go with you. Right?

Kip: Like it just, you know, I’m not gonna penny pinch on things that are driving incremental revenue or are, you know, add-on value or whatever the case may be. And so from there what we’ve ultimately ended up doing, over the last several years, and not to gloss over this, but ultimately then that has then driven all of the campaigns we’ve developed. That has driven the, you know, the website that we manage for them. That has driven a lot of the emails that we send. And when we talk about, you know, managing search or managing social, and those kinds of things, like that all ties back to that. It’s almost inherently baked into things that we do today from every digital standpoint in general.

Tessa: You just mentioned a bunch of the positive benefits that a brand can have, for Nestle, and how we took their ownable identity and extended it across campaigns and communication. And that really helps, not just with price sensitivity and value but also efficiency of execution. Can you tell us a little bit about what happened, you know, with value and with execution when you don’t have a strong brand?

Kip: Yeah. I mean, honestly, to me, the biggest thing is just overarchingly, it just makes life hard. Like when you have a strong brand, you know, product launches start way before you’re actually developing products, sales cycles are shorter, relationships are better. People will understand and expect and connect with the new products better. And so ultimately you’re just, when you have a weak brand, you’re just minimizing the value that you’re putting forth in the marketplace. So ultimately, you know, the brands always exist.

Kip: So whether you actively shape your brand or you just passively let it happen, the brand will exist. ‘Cause, again, it just exists in the minds of audiences. So ultimately by having a weak brand, and when I say weak brand, to me, typically a weak brand is created by somebody who isn’t being honest with themselves in terms of who they are, what the value that they bring to the table, you know, what they offer.

Kip: I see it all the time where, you know, people will talk about, well we’re this. Right? We’re like, what makes us better is our people. And you start to look at it and go, “I mean, is that true? Like, you know, you’re in a space…” And more importantly, does it matter? Right? Like… And so ultimately, you know, the drawbacks of having a weak brand are that you’re just, you’re leaving money on the table. You’re leaving customers on the table. You’re leaving your internal culture on the table. You’re just, you’re not taking advantage of things. And there are lots of companies out there that have done okay in life by, you know, not having a strong, actively shaped brand. But to me it doesn’t make a lot of sense to do it because the brand is the core of everything you do.

Tessa: Yeah. So what if I’m one of these marketers and I’m not totally sold yet on the value of brands. Are there ways that I can measure or kind of like get a litmus test of how strong my brand is? Or what impact the brand might be having on my sales process or on my marketing today?

Kip: Yeah. I think there’s a lot of things you could look for. And the list is probably pretty endless. But some common ones that we see, or I see, particularly in the B2B space, but it exists across everything. And keep in mind this idea of mind’s exist, or brands exist in the minds of your audiences.

Kip: So one is, you don’t stand for anything. So if you start talking to your customers and, you know, you get different answers and your internal team, you start talking to them about, you know, what do we stand for? And you’re getting kind of nebulous, blah, then you know you don’t have a strong brand.

Kip: If you go to each of your team members and you start to say, “Tell me what this company means to you. Tell me what this brand means to you. Tell me what this…” You know, again, whether it’s a company brand or a product brand, you know, and they struggle with that. You know, that’s an issue. You know, listening to your salespeople talk to the customers and explaining, you know, who they are or explaining a product or those kinds of things. You know, that can give you a really good sense.

Kip: If you’re constantly being pushed on price and you’re getting thrown into a marketplace where they just see you as a commodity and you know in your heart you’re not. You know, that’s an issue. And I would say, even ask a few of your customers. See if it aligns. More importantly, ask some of your customers, ask some of your employees, see if that aligns with what you think it is. And that will probably, you know, that will demonstrate that if what you believe you and the brand are and your customers think something different, then you’ve got a big issue.

Kip: And ultimately, there’s a ton of research out there that, you know, having strong brands, depending on the marketplace, can increase value of products or services by anywhere from 10% to 40%. And so ultimately, you know, when you’re looking at this and saying, “Why are we…” To get to the, you know, the value part of it, or the actual numbers part of it, right. So if we’re only converting, you know, 20% of our leads and the industry average is 30 and you know you have a, you’ve just gone through this to feel like you have a weak brand, you’re probably leaving money on the table there, right?

Kip: And when you look at, you know, what are our click-through rates, our engagement rates? And we’re way below industry average, or for these specific products, they’re just not living up. You know, a lot of times there’s… Whether it’s a functional brand, you know, product architecture scenario or issue, or whether it’s just pure brand positioning issue, you can really start to look at engagement, conversion, you know, whether that’s through the website, whether that’s sales conversion, whether that’s, you know, whatever, and, you know, you’re constantly having your pricing pushed down.

Kip:You know, there’s a pretty good chance that that’s a brand issue, you know, in part. So those are the things that I would look for if I was having a conversation with people. I mean, again, we have our process that we can go through. Everything from, you know, research through digital marketing execution and measurement and analytics. But those are some of the key things that I see.

Tessa: I think a lot of people, especially B2B marketing leaders, can relate to that price sensitivity. Because when we do stakeholder conversations we hear constantly from sales teams, “Well, we just have to drop the price. It’s the price is why they’re not buying. The price is too high.” If I know in my heart of hearts that my brand is stronger than that what’s the first step I can take towards building a stronger brand? Or is it just giving the sales team a better story to tell?

Kip: So first you hit on one thing that’s, I think, really, really important. And that is price and quality are almost never the only decision-making for buying a product or service. I mean, it’s been proven across every industry in the history of the world that price is part of it, but it’s typically not the most important part. And especially when you start talking in very complex business marketplaces where, you know, I may need this very specific piece of equipment because it’s, you know, making me more efficient, it’s making me profitable, it’s making me more, whatever. You know, there’s very rarely that those types of scenarios are dictated off price.

Kip: So ultimately… Like you can almost just throw out price and quality if that’s what you’re gonna hang your hat on. You know typically, and salespeople are kind of the prototypical part of that, right. That they, you know, it is easier to sell with a cheaper price. It is easier to sell, you know, by just saying, “Yeah, you know, I’m… That middle margin doesn’t matter that much to me so ultimately…” But, so the second part of that in terms of just addressing their story? Yes.

Kip: But to me it all goes back to that brand being a core tenant of what you do. So ultimately whether it’s a salesperson in front of somebody, whether it’s developing your website or your email marketing automation platform, whatever, it’s gotta go back to that brand. And, ultimately, the first step in starting to identify that, the first step that I would say is that, you know, find a marketing firm.

Kip: Like to me it’s very hard to be self-diagnostic on a brand initiative where you’re emotionally attached to it. And if you’re a leader in an organization, you’re, in some way, emotionally attached to that. And you’re in some way biased because you’re hearing what that internal culture says all the time. And that’s an important component of it, but it has to be taken with a grain of what do customers believe? What do prospects believe? What matters? Right? Like if I’m looking at a scenario and I’m like, you know, you’re basing everything you have on your people, and that’s what you’re hanging your brand hat on, so to speak. But me as a customer, I don’t care what people do because I don’t interact with people. Then it’s not really a valuable brand.

Kip: And so ultimately the challenge to starting a brand process is bringing somebody in who can look at things differently, who could look at it outside, who have a process to identify what’s important, what’s ownable, what’s believable, you know, all those things that make up a brand. I tend to think, and again, I’ve always been an agency guy so maybe I’m a little biased on this, but I tend to think that having an outside resource who can come in and look at your brand and specifically look at it in terms of, you know, and again, this is where I think a lot of marketers make the mistake of I’m gonna come and look at your brand, I’m gonna look at your logo, I’m gonna look at your website design, I’m gonna look at how your ads look. To some degree that part of it is irrelevant. It should be a representation of what the brand is. What you really gotta get down to is what is the ownable brand? What’s important to marketplace? How’s it gonna help me sell more or, charge more, or, you know, whatever the case may be, from a financial KPI standpoint?

Tessa: Well I think we have definitely covered a lot today in regards to what makes up a strong brand, the value of the brand, externally and internally, and some signs or red flags that marketers can start to look out for as, you know, maybe evidence that there’s some work to do in strengthening their brand to realize the benefits. Kip, if somebody wanted to get in touch with you, to talk about this more, how can they find you?

Kip: You can go on our website. I think my contact information’s on there. It’s just [email protected]. My direct line is on there and on my email. All of our clients have my cell phone number. So, I won’t randomly throw it out here, but it’s on the website and it’s on my email. So yeah, I mean, that’s probably the easiest way is send an email to [email protected] and I, as everybody here knows, I will talk and talk and talk, but especially when it’s around brands and digital marketing. So I would say if you’re interested in having a conversation, reach out. It doesn’t have to lead to anything, it can hopefully just help you identify some opportunities internally, at least.

Tessa: Yes. Well thank you so much for popping by our little show. We appreciate having you as a guest. And Tenlo, for everyone, is spelled T-E-N-L-O. So that’s [email protected]. Or you can visit tenlo.com on the internet. That is all we have for today. You can also click on podcasts free on the website to see our past episodes. And you can find us on Apple podcasts, really, Stitcher, and anywhere you listen to podcasts. Our next episode we’ll be diving a little bit deeper into the impact of brand on technology and the role technology can play in elevating the values that Kip talked about today. Thanks again, Kip, for being a guest.

Kip: Yep, thanks, Tessa.

Tessa: And I know I’ll be talking to you soon. Okay.

Kip: Take care, everyone.